FYI: How We Run Things

[ELEVn]

as a heads up to new and prospective members who have raised concerns with how I've always been, but who have not seen this first hand until now, and may be confused as to why things happen as they do, the following chat log illustrates our style nicely:

SorrowL: Needs more torches.
SorrowL: maybe it'll melt
Gattleman: No
ohschis: Thats not even funny

ELEVn: is sorrow being an asshole?
ohschis: Somehow... yes.
ohschis: Kind of.
ELEVn: who's making sorrow be an asshole?
ELEVn: is gattleman provoking this assholery?
ELEVn: I'll have none of this.

[VoxelGuest] ELEVn banned Gattleman

Killjaden:
TheGuyWhoCanFly: wait what?
ohschis: Oh really
shakey_aj: Harsh
TheGuyWhoCanFly: why was he banned?
Killjaden: 11..

[VoxelGuest] ELEVn unbanned Gattleman

ohschis: Guess what, he wont return
SorrowL: Oh well
Killjaden: obv, i wouldn't either
Killjaden: ..if i were a guest
TheGuyWhoCanFly: what if he does :O
Killjaden: ..and sorrow was mean to me..
BogartMurrell: Lol, only a few months ago, if that happened, nobody would've cared

ELEVn: he might. but he's not gonna be a good fit.
ELEVn: ya'll do realize there's a method to our madness, yes?
ohschis: Why ELEVn?
ELEVn: fucking with folks is one of the best ways to get at the core of who they are.
ohschis: Ah.
ohschis: No other way, eh?
ELEVn: plenty of other ways.
ELEVn: none as effective.

TheGuyWhoCanFly: hmmm
TheGuyWhoCanFly: well we did see he just pissed at him right away
SorrowL: I'd never griefa build to a extent I couldnt fix it
SorrowL: what I did to that one guy with his restaurant was 10000x worse
shakey_aj: I remember sorrow trashing a build then when the guest wasn't that angry just pasting it back
shakey_aj: Then doing it another few times.
SorrowL: That was the Restaurant
SorrowL: damn that guest was hard to break

ELEVn: if someone's gonna throw a fit over some light griefing, toss around insults, etc
ELEVn: they're not welcome on the voxel box.
ELEVn: those kinds of folks are actually detrimental to growing the phenomenally awesome community we have here.
ELEVn: so while it looks like I'm being an asshole with a ban
ELEVn: or sorrow with his stuff
SorrowL: its all for a greater good

ELEVn: we do it out of love. with everyone's best interests at heart.

we really do.

while each staff member has their own uniquely awesome ways of going about our business, at a glance, some of us often appear to be total dicks in our interaction with guests. many of our wonderful reviews are a testament to that.

but looks are deceiving, made less so when you take a moment to reason out what's going on.

keep in mind, we've been running the voxel box for a very long time. in that time, we've worked damn hard to provide fertile grounds not just for your creative seeds to flourish, but also fostering a warm and welcoming environment that has created an eerily high quality of friendships -- you'd be hard pressed to find a community like ours anywhere else.

people will never get along with everyone 100% of the time, but if you look closely you'll see that everyone here is darn good people. over time, we've learned to spot the signals that indicate an apple is going to spread rot -- and we'd be doing everyone a disservice if we didn't test and prune those folks as quickly as possible.

even though pushing your buttons isn't the most 'professional' or friendly way to find out how you operate, it does work. and fast.

this means, yes. if you choose to play here, there's a good chance that your build will be fucked with.
there's a greater chance that you will be fucked with. at least by me.
and that's by design.

the guest process isn't just about exploring the server and rapidly improving your creative chops by getting feedback from others.
we want to get to know you. how well you can build is nowhere near as important as how well you get along with folks.

if how we run things seems radically different from how you believe a server should be run, just remember that the voxel box is radically different -- and it's those differences that define us, and continue to provide the best minecraft experience you'll have the pleasure of sharing with us.

it's just how we do. and yeah, we totally look like dicks doing it.
but it works. very well.

[croozee]

Ah, that's good information to know Now I understand why you banned me that one time.

[Skeeve]

This is silly. Excuse my ranting and if i'm rude, but this is kind of makes me mad.

this means, yes. if you choose to play here, there's a good chance that your build will be fucked with.

SorrowL: I'd never griefa build to a extent I couldnt fix it

Really? That's a great thing to say to people! The reason why most people choose to be on here is to NOT have their builds fucked with and their giant creations to be showcased.
Even when you say "Oh i'll just grief it, but I can fix it later." A lot of people don't know that, you don't inform them anywhere (Accept for now.) Its unreasonable to think they wouldn't get mad if they were griefed by an administrator, who is supposed to be protecting the builds, and then banning the guy. And what was happening above, if they didn't find it funny before you even started then don't do it. Oh yeah, okay, its a joke. Just not a good one.

the guest process isn't just about exploring the server and rapidly improving your creative chops by getting feedback from others.
we want to get to know you. how well you can build is nowhere near as important as how well you get along with folks.

"Getting Along with folks" - The only way your going to know is if you treat them nicely in the first place, seriously, you wouldn't go up to some random stranger, and punch them in the face (Which, exampling, you would do with your friends all the time) and suspect them to forgive you. Its stupid!

ELEVn: if someone's gonna throw a fit over some light griefing, toss around insults, etc

Now your not showing the whole story here, so there's no real say in this. And again, light griefing can be very offensive to some people. Of course, they could be mature about it, but even I would be a little pissed of that admins are destroying my build (Not knowing that they could easily fix it)

ELEVn: we do it out of love. with everyone's best interests at heart.

Everybody accept for the people you ban because they don't yet realize (and never will) that you were even joking in the first place. Seriously, this is what you would call elitism. Yes, Voxelbox has a problem with this. You guys need to be more accepting to people. (Of course its the best of the best only builders, but the people you ban could be really good and you don't even know it because you banned them.

while each staff member has their own uniquely awesome ways of going about our business, at a glance, some of us often appear to be total dicks in our interaction with guests. many of our wonderful reviews are a testament to that.

Then don't seem like dicks. Wow!

the guest process isn't just about exploring the server and rapidly improving your creative chops by getting feedback from others. we want to get to know you. how well you can build is nowhere near as important as how well you get along with folks.

(Yes I realize I already quoted this) But fantastic, amazing. Your removing people based on the way they think (And I mean, doing what a normal person would do.) Everybody just has to be perfect don't they? That's a terrible way to think, you should be ashamed.

it's just how we do. and yeah, we totally look like dicks doing it.
but it works. very well.

It works. Good job. Your happy. That's all that matters right?


Like, I don't care what you guys really do. But I think you should be more open to people and at least make something that you can allow people to get used to this situations, a guest server, something. Guest Builds don't prove anything other then how good they are at building and if they can withstand your "Light" Griefing. Make it somehow so they can learn to be like you, don't keep the knowledge to yourself. And no, your tutorials aren't going to work. The only way is if they learn from you. Like, you could set up a school or something, teach them. Share the knowledge.

I'm sorry if I offended anybody, I really am. But this is just my own opinions, and how I think. I deeply apologize.

edit:
Actually wanted to add one more point

if how we run things seems radically different from how you believe a server should be run, just remember that the voxel box is radically different -- and it's those differences that define us, and continue to provide the best minecraft experience you'll have the pleasure of sharing with us.

Only the people who you accept into your private community. People have to learn, as said above. You can't just expect everybody to be perfect.

edit edit:
ANOTHER point, Id just like to note I have been treated like shit (Not always, but most of the time.) Just because i'm not a member. I know you guys don't trust guests, but really!!

[Dr_Obvious]

Ah it's always fun to see messing and to be messed with at times (although it should have some limits, as I have seen things go a little too far)
I think you guys have a great admining crew and it shows.
<3 hearts all around <3

PS. You should post this somewhere on the wiki around some of the guest stuff. I think it would be beneficial to all people, new and veteran as a reminder.

[ELEVn]

I don't care what you guys really do.

your big ol' post up there says otherwise.

This is silly. this is kind of makes me mad. Its stupid! That's a terrible way to think, you should be ashamed.

I'm hardly ashamed of the community we've got here, and our administrative style is a big reason why it exists.
if you don't approve of how we run things, the solution is simple. be not kind of mad elsewhere.

It works. Good job. Your happy. That's all that matters right?

yep.

[Ciscog33k]

[Ridgedog]

It works. Good job. Your happy. That's all that matters right?

The VoxelBox isn't Pay-to-play, so, yes, this is basically all that matters.

Edit: to coin a phrase I used long ago "The VoxelBox: Happy admins! Miserable players."

[Burgerkrieg]

I think this way to deal with people is only OK in a certain group of people. If you do this stuff with adults or mature people, thats fine, they'll understand your way of thinking, even though they become a bit pissed off in the first place. But you also have to think of the fact that most of the players who join us a guests are 13-15 Years old and therefore in the middle of puberty. So the chance is high that you creep the shit out of someone or piss them off that hard that they just leave, even though they would have been really nice persons and a great addition to the server.

My point is that, even though your tactic is really efficient and makes sense to me, it will not make much sense to other people. Also a big point is the pressure. I joined the Server a long time ago, before Sparklez knew about us. I found you on the forums while searching the servers-forum. So I came online and built in the Daro (there was no greylist back then) and I really was under high pressure. I was always nice and always feared that you may not like what I do. And here is the thing: if you fuck around with guests like that, they could mistake it for random hate quite easily (especially if they are not native English speakers) and be scared out. It is hard to distinguish between a fun troll who is actually really nice and a malevolent asshole dictator.

I personally prefer the technique I call "The Plusnine". It's basically about being a nice teacher to persons who takes the hidden talent very seriously and sits down with random guests that are hopelessly bad builders and teach them how to do it right, always encourage them and helping them. Not just being a superior boss, but a superior teacher.

Anyways, thats my opinion. I know you are just trolling when doing this, but your victim may not.

[aitren]

I personally prefer the technique I call "The Plusnine". It's basically about being a nice teacher to persons who takes the hidden talent very seriously and sits down with random guests that are hopelessly bad builders and teach them how to do it right, always encourage them and helping them. Not just being a superior boss, but a superior teacher.

It's a balance. Good-cop/bad-cop style.

[ELEVn]

even though your tactic is really efficient and makes sense to me, it will not make much sense to other people. if you fuck around with guests like that, they could mistake it for random hate quite easily. It is hard to distinguish between a fun troll who is actually really nice and a malevolent asshole dictator.

no doubt, and yes, anyone who's knows us (and me) knows that we're some of the nicest guys and gals you'll ever meet. I may not have emphasized some and my usual style of administrative efficiency enough in the first post, so I understand that it might appear (especially after reading a guest's opinion about how we do things) that we're all assholes, all the time.

this point in particular is worth repeating:

over time, we've learned to spot the signals that indicate an apple is going to spread rot -- and we'd be doing everyone a disservice if we didn't test and prune those folks as quickly as possible.

I've damn near got it down to a science, and I'm sure others have as well. if what you do and say hints toward future problems, you're gonna be put to the test. if you pass, all the better for you -- you've proven yourself a worthy guest in our home, or at least hidden your true nature well enough. if you feel like we're treating you like shit, there's good reason for it, as with our skeevy friend up there.

I personally prefer the technique I call "The Plusnine". It's about being a nice teacher to persons who takes the hidden talent very seriously and sits down with guests to teach them how to do it right, always encourage them and helping them.

me too. in an ideal world, this would be the only way I'd ever interact with guests. plusnine, featherblade, and kupo are some of the finest guides that guests are lucky enough to have access to, and the many times I've done so myself have been truly rewarding experiences that I value highly.

it's a beautiful thing, this thing we've got going on here.
but I've only got so much time.

and there's so many asshats out there.

[Jomeaga]

<--

[coolpilot]

I personally prefer the technique I call "The Plusnine". It's basically about being a nice teacher to persons who takes the hidden talent very seriously and sits down with random guests that are hopelessly bad builders and teach them how to do it right, always encourage them and helping them. Not just being a superior boss, but a superior teacher.

It's a balance. Good-cop/bad-cop style.

Indeed it is.

The Elevn/Ridgedog (Bad Cop) style of guest management weeds out the players who aren't a good match for the server personality wise, so we are left with well-natured guests.
The Plusnine/Featherblade (Good Cop) style of guest management takes the well-natured guests who have the right mind, but not the know-how, to be a great builder and teaches them some of the tools of the trade, so they can be ready for the VB in full.

Heck, if it wasn't for Feather, all my grand ideas for building, city design/layout, and what-not would all be turned into horribly ugly buildings. I mean, just look at this:

I still don't understand how I thought that was good. >_>
But hey, that's half the process of becoming part of the VB: learning.

[BeuTube]

Admins will be admins I suppose. To be quite honest, I do know what your getting at with this, but maybe you picked the wrong people to mess with. I mean, guests out of all people should know the least about the VoxelBox and how it's run, so how on earth would you expect them to take it as a joke? Even if he did happen to join after he was unbanned, it still wouldn't of been all "fun and games" impo. When I was a guest, I don't even remember seeing or reacting with any admins at the time, Quercas was pretty docile. But now, I've noticed a lot more "trolling"' going on with newbies that doesn't exactly seem fair to me either. Guests should feel welcome to the server after being accepted, not played with like some toy. Theyre trying just as hard as everyone else to get accpepted once again into the community, and these events seem like major put-downs. If you want to mess with someone, mess with someone who KNOWS it's all "joking".

That's just my personal opinion. I can't MAKE you guys change anything. It's not how your running the server that I don't like, just maybe how you treat some of the guests or even sometimes members.

But all of this being said, I do think some guests deserved to be trolled. The ones who don't comply, constantly complain, etc. They do.

[Vashal]

Personally i agree with the trolling, now of course you might get mad if it happens to you..but raging, whining..stuff like that just needed that extra push to come out, for you to show your true colors


...my two cents

[ELEVn]

Oh yeah, okay, its a joke. Just not a good one.

how on earth would you expect them to take it as a joke?

not sure why it's seen as a 'joke' -- it's not meant to be.
friendly trolls aside, it's meant to provoke a raw response from a potentially problematic guest.

if I'm called out on my bullshit in a measured and mature way, that's absolutely gonna reflect well on them. if all they can respond with is an unending flow of CAPS-laden insults and profanity, then yeah. no amount of coddling or friendliness is going to change who they are, and they have no place here.

with hundreds of new apps and dozens of guests joining every single day, I'm certain that if roles were reversed there would be no concerns from ya'll. and that's why this thread exists -- if there's any doubt that we do and always have had your best interests at heart, I'd hope that a peek into the crap we've learned to put up with will put you at ease.

it's no small burden, this:

thankfully guest apps do filter 80% of the undesirables, but it's always going to be a struggle to ensure everyone has a pleasant and welcoming place to play.

it's a wild wonder that we've been able to maintain our sanity here -- not just doing anything and everything we can to squeeze every last drop of enjoyment out of this game for our members, but also finding time to enjoy the game ourselves.

[ELEVn]

we're doing something right, anyway.
I just went through the anonymous survey responses, and ya'll blew me away with what was said in the closing comments:

Love the work you are doing for the server. Keep doing the great things you do!

Just wanted to say thanks for giving me the opportunity to play on the server! It's large number of helpful and informative staff members have made the experience even more worthwhile.

Staff does very well to make sure that all guests are helped. While I am a builder, I still care about how the guests are being treated because you never know when there will be new talent. I really appreciate that the staff is always on top of things by keeping helpers in line and giving assistance when needed.

The Voxel Box is awesome. That is all.

Why does Plusnine have such great style? Where does he get his clothes?

You guys are awesome! You do so much hard work and it's really awesome, I'm privileged to have such a great server available for free! I think pretty much then entire staff do a good job of making things run smoothly. Sure there is the occasional time when you wish there was one more titan/admin available to help with certain tasks, but typically there are enough people there to help out.

The builds are good... but the community is great. This is the only online community I've ever been a part of, and I cannot see myself becoming a part of any other.
I like that a good portion of the Admins feature luxurious mustaches. [and beards! don't forget about us beardos]

Giltwist scares me.

I personally think the staff of the Voxel Box is ridiculously awesome. I always hate to ask them stuff, I feel like I'd bother them in their busy life, but when I ask something they are always so nice and helpful. Thanks guys

Thanks to all of the admins and titans for making this the most fun server I have ever played on. Keep up the good work.

I don't know of another server that runs quite as well as this one. The staff are amazing and members are friendly. I enjoy travelling and observing the server's inevitable progression. My above complains and suggestions are minor, there is really very little to improve on. =)

This is a great server with a great community, keep it up!

All around The Voxel Box has got to be the most solidly run, legit operation on Minecraft. It's a shame more servers don't have this much talent and organization.

I consider it a privilege and an honor to be a part of the VoxelBox community. I believe it is only when you are on the outside looking in, that you realize just how special of a place The VoxelBox is. The amount of growth that I have seen in the past year is simply astounding. Not just in terms of builds and plugins, but in the community itself, and the growth of outside media.
The entire community, led by the tireless and remarkably patient admins, has crafted a wonderfully robust universe that I am proud to call my own.

Thanks everybody at the VoxelBox for your hard work! It's great to see that so many people can work so well together and make such a fun community

I hope that my opinion doesn't come across as a list of negatives, but as the survey is designed to do, simply to voice opinion.
This is the most organized server I have been on and it is really difficult coming up with areas it could improve.

Thanks for setting the bar on what Minecraft can be.

I LOVE THIS SERVER!

I have really enjoy my time playing on the server. Really great staff and a wonderful community. Thanks for everything you guys have been doing so far!

I love the server! Keep up the good work guys!

Overall, I am very impressed with the quality that the VoxelBox has brought to minecraft, not only in builds, but in community as well. I am proud to be a member of the VoxelBox community and hope that the future continues to bring great things.

<3

You stole what little life (and tan) I had. Please give them back.

The Voxel Box is almost a dream server to me... I would like to thank all the titans/admins for their time and hard work in crafting such a fun, enjoyable and close-knit server

Love the server. I thank the staff for putting all the time and effort into making the experience wonderful.

I love the Voxel Box already. It's beautiful and (for the most part) people are very friendly and welcoming.

TVB is fucking awesome. keep the good work guys!

This is a fantastic server. It is the best I have played on and I have played on about 7 not counting the ones I have set up with friends. I really love the stories made about te different things around the server.

TVB is one of the best online experiences I've ever had, and certainly the best in Minecraft. Keep up the great work!

The server is really quite awesome. Friendly players, helpful administration, and the absolute best tools (in-game and out-of-game).

Nerdy as it may be- I've become a lot closer to many of the people on the server than I thought I would and it feels more like family than just friends at time. Thank you for this experience.

it's kind words like these that make it all worthwhile, and it's truly remarkable, humbling, thoroughly awesome that we have so many happy players on our little minecraft server. a thank you isn't nearly enough to express how grateful I am (and we are) to have your company, but thank you.
thank you for being here. thank you for being.

thank you, dreamers, for choosing to be here.
as long as you keep sharing your dreams, we'll be here to help make them a reality.

[BeuTube]

Damn. Seeing what you guys have to go through....it's astonishing. Your determination and dedication to this server has made EVERYBODY's privilege of playing on the Voxel Box a worthwhile opportunity. I never meant to offend you or how your operate in any way, shape, or form. I'm only giving suggestions and input so you guys can continue to make an enjoyable and friendly environment for players from guests to titans to experience. Keep doing what you do. It's been amazing what you've guys and gals have accomplished so far.

[Dupefrog]

Haha, oh how I love things like this . Makes me laugh when stuff like this happens, people need to grab a better sense of humour and perhaps learn how to download vent so they can find out that it was a joke and log back in. What I dislike are the people on the server are self obsessed, and rather patronising. I won't make any examples, I am sure you all have your own opinions on that.

[rosedragon]

What I dislike are the people on the server are self obsessed, and rather patronising. I won't make any examples, I am sure you all have your own opinions on that.

But I still care of my frog D: ...

[DemonPlaysPro]

Haha. I remember when you sniped my whitelist build.

"You think this is a big hole?"
*snipes size 50 hole, destroying my build*
"This is a big hole"

[mauritso]

When I got white-listed by Featherblade it was about 00:00 (I am 13...) so I was tired, 10 seconds after I got
white-listed ELEVn unwhite-listed me... I think i said something like: "lol" and 10 seconds later Feather rewhite-listed me.

After reading this topic I understand why he did that.

I worked like 20 hours to get white-listed in 1 week because my first build was wiped and the second was a mistake which could'nt be fixed (redstone). Luckily I thought it was just one of the famous ELEVn trolls/tests, but I think it was the perfect moment to (break someone) let him/her show his/her real personality and let him/her go full asshat which will result in a ban.

[joshchonpc]

I remember when Demon's build was demolished... I was thoroughly surprised that he didn't rage quit and was indeed white listed. I think that is a testament to his and overall members' integrity.
I think we can all agree that life is not fair. Some people(of course, those with apt amount of skill) get white listed with no problems to the voxelbox. Others have to go through some tough crap. I went through 9 whitelist builds, three of which were destroyed. If a guest cannot go through the hardships of life like ELEVn trolling or admins sniping a huge hole in the ground destroying his or her build, I think that person doesn't deserve to be on this server.
I mean, means aside, the results prove that the voxelbox is maintaining it's quality of builds and community. Maybe we are just over thinking it.

[Razorcane]

Sometimes I don't like the way 11 goes about doing things. I get the feeling that he doesn't trust most of the higher-ranked players, but that's just who he is. But I mean, you can't expect someone to not get mad when you go around destroying their builds. To me, "light griefing" is placing a couple of blocks here and there, not taking sniper to their build. Someone who doesn't understand VoxelSniper might think you are permanently wrecking their build, and then banning them for standing up for their creative intellect. You can say it's all a joke, but it's not a joke to them. It's like telling a little 5 year old kid his drawing is shit, then throwing it in a fire. You just don't do that to people. Whether it be a video game or not, that's still a person that's being terrorized for your pleasure, and I just think it's downright selfish.

Now, 11, I know you'll probably say, "If I don't like it, then leave," but I don't play on the VB for the admins, I play there so I can become a better builder, and so that I can interact with the rest of the community.

[ELEVn]

I get the feeling that he doesn't trust most of the higher-ranked players

assumptions and preconceptions. again.

terrorized for your pleasure

really.

that's just who he is.

your post is all over the place, but let's focus here.

do you know me, razor?
have you ever spoken with me at length?
is your assertion here based on anything concrete? what exactly is who I am, to you, based on?

observations? assumptions about why I do things?

you're pretty quick to speak to who I am as word-of-god how-it-is.
but you don't know me. and you've never made an attempt to do so, either. why?

assumptions and preconceptions. that "staff would ban you" for speaking your mind.
that "staff is abusive". that we're unreasonable. that speaking to us is a waste of time.

your feelings have been way, way off for as long as you've been here, dude.
you assume the worst of just about everyone without having a clue about who we are and why we do.
and while your assumptions about me personally have always been entertaining, they're still assumptions.
I think there's an old folk tale about assumptions and donkey shows that illustrates the dangers there. or something like that.

if you'd bothered to use some of that maturity you're always touting around, you would talk with us and get some perspective.
instead, you observe. you assume. you feel.

it's surprising you've suddenly decided to spread your assumptions and feelings publicly instead of privately, though.
good opportunity to communicate at any rate.

Now, 11, I know you'll probably say,

you don't know shit, dude. but it doesn't have to be that way. communication is key!

[AndyBz17]

Giltwist scares me.

That is by far, the most important comment of them all.